BONUS EPISODE - My Story with Bipolar - Interviewed by Sarah Williamson

In today's episode, I speak for the first time in depth about my story with bipolar disorder, interviewed by my friend Sarah Williamson. This week has been the first time I shared my story with bipolar disorder, and the reason why I've avoided speaking about this publicly is due to the stigma related to it. 

The reason why I have decided to start speaking about Bipolar Disorder is because my friend Khaled Bayad will be hosting a program called The Beautiful Mind Program which is designed to help you manage your bipolar disorder imbalance. Living with a diagnosis of bipolar disorder is not a curse. You can go on to be a highly successful, grounded, and achieving person, such as Khaled and I. We have both moved to Bali, no longer experience the symptoms that once debilitated us, and have become full time healers, helping others as well. You can learn more about the program here. 
https://www.themindfullifepractice.com/the-beautiful-mind-program

Sarah is the founder of Drink Less; Live Better, she is passionate about supporting people who’ve come to the conclusion that the amount they’re drinking is doing them more harm than good. She believes you don’t need to hit rock bottom to decide that change is both possible and joyful. Sarah is a certified sobriety coach focusing on the positive gains of choosing an alcohol free life and the connection between our physical, emotional and spiritual health.

Sarah works online internationally delivering powerful and transformative 1:1 coaching programmes.

Sarah works in the magic space where doubt, hope and action meet - ready?

Website www.drinklesslivebetter.com

Drink Less; Live Better Podcast https://drinklesslivebetter.captivate.fm/listen

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi, friend. This is Alex McGobbs, founder of the Mindful Life Practice, and you're listening to the Sober Yoga Girl podcast. I'm a Canadian who moved across the world at age 23 and I never went back. I got sober in 2019 and I realized that there was no one talking about sobriety in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, so I started doing it. I now live in Bali, Indonesia, and full-time run my community, the Mindful Life Practice. I host online sober yoga challenges, yoga teacher trainings, and I work one-on-one with others, helping them break up with booze for good. In this podcast, I sit down with others in the sobriety and mental health space from all walks of life and hear their stories so that I can help you on your journey. You're not alone, and a sober life can be fun and fulfilling. Let me show you how. So I had Sarah on the show way back when we first started, around a year ago, and I interviewed her on her sober journey and sober story. And then Sarah had the idea to interview me for my 1000 Days Sober, which we did in January, which was a ton of fun. And then recently I've started speaking on social media about having bipolar disorder. And I thought that Sarah would be an amazing person to come on the show and do another interview so that I could share a bit more of my journey. So Sarah is here today. Welcome, Sarah, and thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Thank you. I'm so looking forward to this. Can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Amazing. So should I hand it over to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah, I'm ready to go. I'm good to go. So I have been, obviously, we follow each other in social media worlds and see where each other is up to at any given point. And obviously, I've noticed and seen that you've started started talking about bipolar recently. So I really am interested to learn a bit more about the whole journey that you've been on with that, where you are right now, and what you've got, because I know you have got something exciting lined up and coming in the future that the rest of us can be a part of. Could we start please by going back a bit, reversing in time? And could you tell me a little bit about what it was like experiencing your mood disorder? Perhaps when you were a teenager or young adult? Where when did you first feel its effects and what was that like?

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Yeah, absolutely. So I started experiencing like what I remember from being a young kid is that I was just always a kid in extremes, and certain things would trigger me into like a spiral. And I'm thinking of one example. When I was in grade six, and my teacher said something about how if you we had a project on like airplanes or on flight or something, I think it was a project on flight, and we had to make something that flew. And I made a paper airplane. And she said right before the presentation started that if you made a paper airplane, it meant that you didn't put any effort into your project or something. And I remember getting up and then she she took it back. Like I think another kid did a paper airplane project and she said, Oh, I changed my mind, it was great or stuff. Like there was something where she took it back. Like she un she tried to unsay it, but it was already said at that point. And I remember getting up in the front of the classroom and just like sobbing through the whole presentation. Like I just could not stop crying. And it was like I heard her comment and I internalized that of like, I am not worthy, or I'm incapable, or I'm um I'm not a great person. And and so I just remember as a kid going as back as like a young, really young kid, being really triggered by things into really big emotions. And so that was kind of like an ongoing childhood experience. And then when I was a teenager, I remember starting to experience what I now see now as depression. And I didn't see it at the time, but I had a boyfriend for about a year when I was in grade 10, he was in grade 12, and then he went off to university and kind of broke my heart. And I was just really, it was like I could not let go of it for like a year. Um, and I was just in this really big low. And that was when like I got really into partying when I met him. But then when we broke up, that was like the extreme of like when I started to drink like every weekend, both nights on the weekend. And so it's really interesting because it's like what came first, like bipolar disorder or the alcohol use. I don't know, but it was like this intertwining thing throughout my teenage years. And when I got to university, that was when it really hit me. And that's what I remember being significant. And I remember, I remember that was when I started calling home and in the fall just being like sobbing, like cry, like could not stop crying. And um I don't remember, I don't remember coming to any conclusion. There was definitely, I don't think my parents recommended to me to go to counseling. I don't think they knew that it was a mental health thing. I don't think I knew it was a mental health thing because you, you know, I think as a kid and a teenager, I was like always making up reasons why I was sick, not because I was lying, but because something felt wrong and I didn't know what it was. You know what I mean? So I remember like when I was at school in grade six, feeling anxiety over something and calling home and saying I was sick. And people thought, and then all throughout middle school, I would call home and say I was sick and I really didn't feel well. And people thought that I was like faking sick to leave school, and it just like something didn't feel well within me. And so that was going on in university, and it was when the winter of my first year university, so I would have been 18 at this point, when I really started to feel um what I was like, okay, this is strange. And I was really in tune with what was going on with me. So I was like, I was really, really low in the fall, and now I'm like really high. Um and that was when I was that was when I read about bipolar, and that was when I was like, I think I have this. And I had been finding my moods unmanageable for a long time, but there was so much stigma around it, you know, and I was telling my parents I don't feel well, but it's like you can't articulate it. And then when I finally got into counseling, it was just this, it was like barrier after barrier. Like I finally went. It took me so long, first of all, to get over the fear of like going. And then I finally got in there. And because I was like, I just look like a normal girl, a normal university girl. And in this system that's overloaded, this gigantic school with all these kids partying, and there was a serious mental health crisis happening at the time when I was at university. Like in one year, I think there were like I think there were like there were multiple suicides. I don't want to say, I don't want to say the number because I can't remember exactly how many, but there was a mental health crisis going on at the school. And so they were like kind of overloaded with cases. And there was one psychiatrist on the campus, and you know, the counselors were limited to four sessions a year for a whole year, so which is like not a long-term solution for a kid in crisis, right? My parents didn't have a lot of money, so it was like I couldn't pay for private counseling because at this point, my my dad was out of a job and my mom was like fully supporting two kids through university. And so I had what resources were like publicly available to me, which weren't enough. And um I think I showed up at the door and they're like, Oh, you're a you know, you're a girl in ug boots and blonde hair and a Canada boost jacket, you're fine, go do some yoga. And and so that was what I faced for a long time. And and I kept going and seeking help. And because I was not, because I hadn't like attempted suicide or I wasn't even articulating suicidal thoughts, because I was not in these extremes, I just seemed like a kid that was like, you know, partying too much, which um was the main barrier I faced for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, yeah. And so in those moments when you were phoning friends and and family and you were crying and you were um obviously expressing an unhappiness, a dissatisfaction, what kind of um advice was being offered to you, or or was it just a listening ear? Was anybody offering up anything practical as a as an idea to you?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

So I think the issue with my family is that I I think it was, and I think a lot of people have had have this experience. I don't think it's isolated to my family, but um there have you ever heard of the term like waspy? Is that a UK term? Do you guys use that?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

So everyone knows.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

So waspy is like wasp is like a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, is what it stands for, but it's basically become a term for like people that are kind of like white and privileged and um behave a certain way. And so there was this huge thing of like, you know, we don't talk about our feelings, everything gets swept under the rug, private stuff is private stuff. And um, so there was no space for me to talk about mental health. And I don't want to say, I don't want to blame anyone because this is a cultural issue across the world and it's not exclusive to Canadians, it's not exclusive to my family, it's not exclusive to Toronto, it's around the world. You know, just the other day, my my PT, my personal trainer, who I love, who's Indonesian, he said to me, Why do you do yoga? And I said, for my mental health. And he said, Oh, I have a friend who has mental health problems. She told me she has bipolar, but I don't believe her. And I started to cry. Like I just started to cry because I was like, This is what I faced for ever. And that is like the saddest thing. And I said, and I'm like, I I I like him, but I'm like, I look like a normal girl. Do I look like I have bipolar? And so it's across the world. Like it's not just a Canadian thing, but for me, it was this constant, like, you know, I would be in a crying spell. I remember I was in a crying spell where I could not stop crying and I had gotten rejected from a job application. And it wasn't about the job. It's clear. I can't I can't stop crying for the entire weekend. It was it was a mental health thing. And I just remember my my dad being like, oh, I've not, I haven't gotten lots of jobs. That was the that was like the thing to comfort me. And I look back and I'm like, I was clearly in a major depressive episode, and it wasn't really about that incident, but I just don't think it was it was understood by anyone.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

And I think now maybe perhaps times I'm not saying for everybody all the time, but times have changed. I think and I think we're so much more likely to be able, even if we don't know exactly what to do in the moment, we're so much more likely to be able to catch glimpses of something going wrong for our friends, our family, for people around us, and act in a way that might be a little bit more supportive than you know, a throwaway comment about, you know, uh negating somebody's situation by saying, Oh yo, that happened to me too, I I got over it, or whatever the thing is. What you are articulating in that moment, of course, might not be the problem at all. It's just the thing that you're saying, you know, the aeroplane incident that looked like it was about the aeroplane, the not getting the job incident looked like it was about not getting a kid.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

And how many squillions of examples around the world every single day are going on for people with their own examples of those things? Um so tell me a bit then, you had you were knocking on that university campus um door part of the students' union or whatever, and you were struggling, somebody suggested to you, you know, go off in your rugs and try some yoga. What what else did help you in the times before you had actually got in front of a doctor? What what were you what had you found yourself as coping strategies?

SPEAKER_02 13:31

So I did. Um the one person that was a super helpful listening ear within my family was my sister. And um she is, oh my god, I'm like tearing up when I when I talk about it because she is like, so my sister's a social worker. And um the way that she can hold space for people, like it's not just me, it's all of her friends. And the way she can hold space for people to share their journey. And and I I think it's really interesting actually that both of us have become healers in different ways. Um and I think that's not a coincidence because of what we experienced in our childhood, but she was just an amazing person. And I think um when I try to listen to people, I try to channel the way my sister is. Um, but she was an amazing help. And I think the biggest things that my sister does is like not give advice, just listens. She likes it's a lot of the skills that we we are taught in coaching. You know, you you emphasize with someone, you mirror back how you think they're how you've heard it. Um and then it's just like always a positive conversation where I feel like I've gotten a lot out of it. I do, I don't need her help as much anymore. And I also am mindful of like there was a time in my life when I really, really relied on her because I didn't have any other help. And so I try not to like treat her like a therapist, you know, and I'm very fortunate to have a ton of supports around me now. So I did do counseling for a while. I don't personally use counseling anymore just because I find that it's very rooted in the past and I'm not in the past anymore and I'm in the future and the business. And so I prefer to have business coaches because that's like my focus, and then they can support me through, you know, whatever is going on in the moment. But um I think having someone to talk to to listen to. And the thing is, at the in the case when I was a student, I really didn't feel like I had the funds to support private counseling. I do think if I had reprioritized things like the amount of money I was spending on alcohol and eating out, I probably could have put that all towards a counseling session realistically. And I think we all are guilty of this. We prioritize the wrong things. And I see it all the time, like people that are prioritizing, you know, partying, going out, even sober things, you know, a sober event on a boat or whatever, where people value their money as opposed to a coaching session or counseling session. And I have felt constantly that even if I'm like struggling with money, this will a hundred percent be worth the healing if I am in need of healing to do some kind of healing thing. But anyway, that was a total tangent. My sister has been amazing. Um, my yoga practice obviously became addicted to yoga. Um, I did a lot of journaling at the time. I don't journal so much anymore. I still write a lot, but most of it becomes like an Instagram post at this point. And what else? I used to write music, actually. I stopped writing music when I started teaching yoga because I found that this is like all my creative energy was going into like my yoga teaching, like building a playlist, finding quotes, building a sequence. But I used to write music before I started teaching yoga.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, yeah. I think those creative pursuits, we don't always um recognize the benefits that they bring. I think creativity is one of those things that we end up often filling our lives with crazy to-do lists, and the time, the space, the energy for creativity isn't always prior often isn't prioritised. Um, and actually, you know, these are the pursuits in which we're able often more easily to move into those beautiful flow states where our brain does have the capacity to let go of all of the past and future worry-based thinking and just be, just be. So, yeah, yeah, and you know, we never know, do we, where our creative. I think as long as we have that kind of um idea about being open about creativity, at the moment for you it's it's yoga, but we're multifaceted individuals, and you know, we can move at any point, you know, into some artistic pursuit, whether that's you know, um creating with paints, drawings, music, singing, the whole lot, the whole lot. That's lovely. So you then um got in front of a doctor. Was that whilst you were still at university or after you'd left university?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, so I was really, really fortunate. So I was going to counseling. And um what I've learned about it, I actually, when I was writing my book last year, a couple years ago, I actually Googled into it. And basically the way it was set up at my university was they have the counseling office and the um physical health office. They were two separate things, and it was so funny because it was the downstairs and the upstairs. So it literally to me was like the body and the mind, you know? And I thought of them as two separate things. And so I was seeking counseling. And what I now understand about the counseling office is that the people that are in that were in that counseling office, and it could differ from country to country, from setup to setup, but what was going on there was it was students coming out of like a talk therapy degree, doing practicums who were there to intervene with like a trauma. Like, say you had a death and you need like four sessions to to get over the grief of a death or like you know, a divorce and you're grieving whatever is happening in your life that you're going through. That's what it was for. It was not for you to walk in and say, I think I have bipolar. And that was the I was just in the wrong place all along. And so I kept going back and I ended up getting a referral to like a brainwave place. Like I swear, I went to so many places. I went to this guy who told me that bipolar is like not real, it's just your emotions. That was like an actual psychiatrist in the city. Um, and then what finally happened, and the other issue too was that there were these two-week wait lists. It was four sessions a year, so I'd do one and then have a break. And um, so no one was really getting to know me and seeing these things. And then what actually happened was I had a pretty big breakdown. And what happened, which I now fully understand almost 10 years later, was that I was in a narcissistic abusive relationship. And I had a boyfriend at the time who I thought was my boyfriend. And then I walked into a bar with him, kissing and holding hands with another girl. And it was very traumatic. I was so young and and and he had been my friend for four years, like one of my best friends. And I was just like very confused by the whole thing. I'm like, why would you tell your best friend that she's always been the one and then be dating another person? Like, I just don't understand. And I later found out that, you know, he had at least two other girlfriends. It was like a classic, like narcissistic abusive relationship. And I went through many more of those in my 20s. Um, but it was a very traumatic experience that was really being belittled by the people around me. Um, and I had a complete breakdown. Called my sister. She's like, you need to get into counseling. Um, and so I called the counseling office and they said to me, you know, is this an emergency, which is the classic thing. And I would always say no, because I was like, I'm over-exaggerating. And this time I was like, this is an emergency for the first time. And so they were fully booked as usual in the in the counseling office, but they said, let's taxi you over to the other campus because we have some availability there. And that was the faculty of education campus where I later did my bachelor of education. And so this was this campus, it was called West Campus, about 15 minutes away, and all of their education students were out on practicum. So for two months they were off campus, and so the counselor had like nothing. It was like The most wild thing because I remember when my book editor read this and she's like, I don't understand why all this woman had all this time when for four years no one had any time. And it was literally just divine intervention of everything lined up. Like I think they must have just gone on practicum because it was, I remember it was St. Patrick's Day. So it would have been, they just started, so they had two months off campus. So they they taxied me over there, paid for my taxi, and I got there. And this woman stayed with me like for two hours after her shift. And we I was there for a long time. And I remember she organized my whole life into like all the stressors, which no one had ever done for me before. It was like, okay, money was short. I was trying to pay for my yoga teacher training. I didn't have enough money for it. You know, I didn't understand what was happening in this relationship and um what else was going on. Oh, I was like failing out of all my courses. Like there were like a ton of things happening in my life right now that like led to this breakdown. And I just remember her staying with me for until it got sorted. And then she just gave me extra sessions. You know, she just said, Um, I'm gonna see you until we get this fixed. And I think one of the things was like, I keep, I think probably one of the things on the list was like, I really think I have bipolar and I keep reaching out to counselors and they keep telling me you don't you don't have it. And um, she said, We're gonna get you, let's get you into psychiatrists, let's get you into psychiatry. And so she actually, she was the person who made the on-campus psychiatry referral, which I did not even know was a thing. I didn't know there was a campus psychiatrist. Like no one told me that. Um, and at one point, someone even had referred me to like neuroimaging, where they had like wires attached to my brain and it was off campus. And I was like, this is what I've been asking for this whole time. So she finally got me there. It did take a little bit of time, again, another like delay. So this was April when she finally got me the referral, and I got in in October. So it was a long time, but I finally got in and he looked at me and it was great that I got in when I did, because you know, most people with bipolar experience these like sick. Well, I shouldn't say most people. I know I have experienced it in a cyclical seasonal nature. And so I landed in his office in September, right when I was like going into depression. And um, he looked at me and just said, uh, yeah, you're depressed right now. Um, it's highly likely that you have bipolar because bipolar's in your family. Um, let's put you on some mood stabilizers. And then in a week I was feeling better. And um, I was on a very low dose of mood stabilizer. He said to me, This is enough to maintain you. You probably do have bipolar and just kind of sent me on my way. And that was like this life-changing moment, but also I misunderstood a lot of things. So I thought, like, okay, I have these meds and I'm I'm like kind of diagnosed. You know, he said, he said, you probably have it, which my book editor was like, yeah, he's telling you you're diagnosed. And I'm like, well, I'm this kid who for seven years or 10 years, people told me there's nothing wrong with me, and I'm a normal kid. So if he hasn't said to me, you have bipolar, now I'm convinced that I'm like making it up because he hasn't given me like an official.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Like there was this whole complex of like, I don't want to be lying about it, and no one's told me it's official. So I, and then plus, my parents like don't really want to hear about it. And so I didn't even tell them that this whole thing was going on. Like, I just I think I went home for Thanksgiving or Christmas. My mom saw my meds and was like, Oh, are these helping you feel better? And I said, Yeah, and she said, Great. And then that was like it. Um, and so I don't think anyone actually thought that I had bipolar at this point, and I just was not sure, which then created a ton of problems. So I then got a job in Kuwait, moved across the world. Typical Alex situation of like someone promises you something amazing, and then you get over there and you're like, what is like it's quite similar to the these narcissistic relationships, romantic relationships I was in, where someone, you know, love bombs you and makes you seem like it's spectacular. And then it ended up being like a pretty bad situation. And I wasn't on enough meds, I didn't have access to yoga. I'm drinking alcohol, but I'm also making alcohol and tons of things are going on. And I ended up um just kind of like crashing and burning um about two years later.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

So in that period then of your your early 20s, when all different your your life had moved through the university years, you move your life to a different country, um, alcohol was a part of your life at that stage, along with that medication you were on. Did you ever have that thought that these two things together aren't a great combo, or did anyone ever say that to you?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Great question. So the psychiatrist did mention it, but I never saw him again. Because, you know, it's like, okay, this girl's fixed onto the gigantic wait list of all the other kids that I have to deal with at this school, right? So it wasn't like neglectful, it was like he she's fine, goodbye. He said, you know, don't drink. He said, have one. I said, okay, I can do that, you know, I can do that. And then you have one, and then you have two. I think the first night I we had a party and I had like, you know, five drinks, and I was like, oh, this is fine. I didn't die, nothing else.

unknown 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Like I thought that it was like a health thing of drinking alcohol and having meds, and like you could like have a heart attack. Like, I didn't understand that it was affecting my, you know, no one explained that to me.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

No, and I think that it is one of the great um subjects that just for well, I was about to say for obvious reasons. I don't know if it is really obvious, it is now obvious to me in a way it couldn't have been years ago. But alcohol is a depressant, and so many people just don't want to accept that, don't want other people to know that, or they do know that and they uh persevere with it anyway. But I think I didn't really come round to fully accepting that until I was well into my sober sober journey. I I'd have always told you that actually you know, the way that I felt after drinking was caused by other things. I was never gonna tell you it was the actual effects of the alcohol. I was gonna tell you it was about not too much sleep or being dehydrated or eating something a bit fair or whatever it was, whether it was one of those hangovers that was a quick one and done one, or increasingly one of those hangovers that lasted a heck of a lot longer. Um so tell me then how your experience of bipolar has changed since you have been alcohol-free. You're over your a thousand days now. So the fact that you've taken alcohol out of your life, how are you feeling now?

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Yeah. So I had so after the experience in Kuwait, I had a pretty serious mental health breakdown. That was like the biggest um kind of falling apart of my life. And I was um really suicidal, um, really low, really not well. And that was kind of the accepting moment where my family and everyone accepted, okay, this is what she has. Um and I went home and got treated. And I think it was really difficult for a lot of people because we are that family that doesn't talk about anything. And so um it's been really hard. Um, or it was really hard. And I did not drink a ton during that time when I was home in Canada. I did a little bit, like did go out a little bit. I wanted to be social. Um, and then I went on a yoga teacher training in Bali, which was like amazing. And I was mostly sober here, you know, on my days off, I would get drunk, but that was once a week, which um is not a lot for someone like me. And so it was then when I got to Abu Dhabi where stuff massively hit the fan because I it just became normal to party so hard. Like, I can't even describe to you the first Christmas party I went to at my school. I was like, this is like frost week in university. Like, I can't believe people are behaving this way, but that's what it was. It was like we lived in a vacation town where everyone was like, you know, they're on vacation and all the Brits are there in Dubai, like doing their British, like partying. And so um that was where it really got out of control. And so I party, party, partied for a year and a half. Again, was hit the point where I was like having suicidal thoughts, um, having big mental health spirals. And that was when I got sober. And the first probably seven, like the withdrawals were really, really, really bad for me because my mood was impacted. And I was again that that was like probably the second biggest low was like the first probably week sober, where I was again having suicidal thoughts and really, really low. And then as soon as I got over that hump, it was just like boom, everything's fine. Um, I don't really experience mania and depression at all to the way that I ever did. I definitely have days where I'm emotional, definitely have days where I'm low, periods where I'm low, but I'm just so highly aware now with alcohol out of the picture, I can much more easily figure out what's going on. Like, okay, this is why I'm feeling like this. I haven't slept or I haven't ate, or I um this is happening with me, or this family member upset me, or these friends upset me. So I need to get away from these friends, or you know, where is the healthiest place for me to be during the pandemic? This is something I thought about a lot. Like, I it's best for me to stay right where I am in the UAE rather than like love my family, but I just know that it's not gonna be the best place for me to be, like in lockdown with them. And so it's like I feel like being sober, it's just completely changed the experience because I do have emotional moments, but it's like nowhere near what it used to be at all.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

And so do you if you were to be able to go back to your younger self, would I guess that quitting alcohol would be one of the things that you might have suggested to your younger self? Hey, if I ever went back and chatted to my younger self about quitting alcohol, I know my younger self would have something not very polite to say on the subject. I know that my younger self would have carried on exactly how I was, thanks very much. But aside from the piece of advice about giving up alcohol, what other things might you have told your younger self, you know, when you were 18 through to your your early 20s when you were experiencing all of those different things going on?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

So I think alcohol was one of them, but then the other thing was that I was constantly trying to fit into places where I didn't belong. And and that came hand in hand with the alcohol, in that the friends I chose, like I've been thinking a lot about one friend group that I was part of in, I mean, it honestly happened through many different friend groups in university, in in Kuwait, in Abu Dhabi. It's not just this specific friend group, but I remember feeling so unwanted by them, you know, like it would be a birthday party and no one would invite me, or they would all be going to the prom and no one would invite me, or um like things would be happening and I would feel like I would be like forcing myself upon them. And like I remember I went all the way up to to visit them in like Whistler, which is like the other side of Canada. And I remember I showed up, my aunt had had packed all this food, and they all got like so high and ate it on the first night. And then like no one even thanked me for it. It was all gone. The the food was supposed to be for the whole weekend, it was all gone. And um, and then they were just doing their own thing without me. And I I think I spent a lot of that weekend alone because I didn't really, I was never into the drug scene. I didn't really want to go do drugs with them. Like I came to spend time with them, but they didn't really want to spend, like, I don't think they really understood that I had like come across the world to visit them. And I think back on moments like that, and I'm like, what the heck was I doing? Like I would have been so much happier at like a yoga festival, you know? And like I remember in Abu Dhabi, there were like things like that going on that were so much more me. And I would like turn them down because I wanted to fit into like this cool scene. And I think back to these people that I like there's one person that I remember I tried so hard to be friends with her in Abu Dhabi because I thought she was cool. And like she she's like not even nice to me. Like, I don't even feel good vibes from her and ever. And so someone in our friend group messaged me recently asking me to send like a congratulation for a lifestyle, you know, milestone she's going through. And I just privately messaged saying, you know, I don't really think she likes me. So I don't want to be part of this video. Thanks for thinking of it. And and and in before I got sober, I would just keep trying. And and I see that was just a triggering thing for me for wanting so hard to be liked by other people. And now it's like, who cares? Like I like myself and I'm gonna find people that like me. And if you don't like who I am, sorry, but like that's it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

I would say not even sorry. Um, you know, I've just done a podcast episode last week on what other people think of us is none of our business. Um, you know, how did I get to be 44 and only just realised this recently? This is this should be something that we spend more time, you know, getting absolutely clear in our heads when we're younger and help us out a lot. Especially, you know, in those years, I think that whole fitting in piece, you know, through your teens and your early 20s, it's hard, you know. Alcohol, definitely I use that as a crutch. You know, I I always would have described myself as extrovert, you know. I absolutely was the classic, first on the dance floor, last off the you know, first into the bar, all of that stuff. And you know, it really is recent times that I feel that I can say out loud and feel fine about the fact that I really can see I am much more introvert. I know it's all on a scale, but really, you know, I get my energy from smaller groups of people and from one-on-one conversations, and actually, you know, right now the thought of a massive night out on a big dance floor, you know, there's a time and place for that stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to a wedding that I'm going to next month, but really it isn't how I want to spend a Friday or a Saturday night on a regular basis right now, and I'm good with that. So what would you say then your biggest learning apart from the thing, the advice you'd give your younger self, what would you say your biggest learnings that you take from from this bit of your journey?

SPEAKER_02 37:49

I think one of the biggest things is that our, and I say this all the time, our thoughts create our reality and we create this experience in our mind of what's happening in the world, and it might not actually be true, and we think it's true. And this was a big thing that shaped my journey, right? I once from the moment I thought that I had bipolar, first of all, I kept saying that I was bipolar, which is now my pet peeve, like defining myself as this thing when really it was just a part of me. And I also thought, you know, I can't get a job because I have this, or no one's ever going to want to date me, or blah, blah, blah, blah. And because it's so stigmatized, you think that you're the only person in the world who has it because no one talks about it. Like I can't, I don't think one person that I know has ever put a social media post saying that they have bipolar. Like maybe some celebrities, some like random social media people that I've connected with over the years have said it, but I cannot tell you one friend or family member I know who has publicly stated that they have bipolar. And it's just something that's not talked about. Like depression, anxiety are getting up there. But the thing about bipolar is that it then puts you into this category of like, I don't trust your judgment. And that was what held me back because I was like, people will look at you and think, oh, you become manic and then you lose good judgment. And so you won't make a good teacher or you won't make a good business leader or whatever. And so that was one thing is like me being convinced all these things were true about me just because of this diagnosis. And then the second thing was just thinking that I was the only person in the world and there was something wrong with me because once you, it's like sobriety, once you start talking about it, it's like people are coming out of the woodwork every moment of every day saying I have bipolar.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Like I can't tell you how many people have messaged me.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

How many people have like I remember in in Abu Dhabi, I was saying, you know, I was um in this situation and mentioned, you know, I used to write music because I had a mood disorder, and and someone there messaged me saying, you know, what's your mood disorder? Oh, I have bipolar, you know, and and it's like once you start talking about it, then people are want to talk about it. And then you find out that you're actually not so alone. And I think one of the best things that we can do if we feel confident and comfortable is share our story because, and it might take a long time for me, it took decades because I did have this like ingrained stigma. And now I'm like, you know what? I don't ever plan to be a teacher again. I'm done with that, it's over. That was my big fear was like not getting employed again. I'm like, well, I'm not trying.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

So it's okay. Yeah, it's all fine.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

And so what else do you hope by by speaking out loud right now and and being public? You're um opening a channel of conversation. People are in your DMs and um talking to you, and and maybe you're one of the first people that they are speaking to because of the associated stigma we think might be out there. What other reasons do you think it's good to be talking about this right now? And can you tell us about what you've got coming up?

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah, so I think being talking about it, especially as someone who me, I've gone on to be what I think as having recovered from it, I don't really experience it. And um, I've gone on to be really, really successful despite having this diagnosis. And I think that that's a really wonderful example to give for people. Like if I had seen a person like me back when I was 18 and been like, wow, you can do it, like not just not just survive, but thrive, um I would just be blown away and it would give me so much hope. And so I hope to be that role model for for other people who are, you know, maybe in the depths of it and feel like they can't find a way out. And um, I'm really excited to be pairing up with Khaled. I actually have an Instagram live with him later today. And so Khaled is someone who I met through this manifestation challenge in in the winter. And um, wow, this thing, we just connected on so many levels. And so he's also lived with bipolar. And um he and I have come together. He is a hypnotherapist, and we've put together this program called the Beautiful Mind that we're so excited about. And so, pretty much, we're bringing together all the holistic tools that inspired us and helped us on our path, and we're putting it together into a program for people that are looking for more additional support to recover from bipolar disorder. And so the program looks like daily yoga practices. I filmed three classes in these beautiful locations in Bali. So, yoga for depressed states, yoga for manic states, yoga for neutral states, and Khaled will be doing custom hypnotherapy tracks. He will be doing four private sessions. I'll be doing some coaching. There's going to be group community. And I'm just so, so excited about it because it's my first time stepping out of the sober sphere and doing something new. And I really think it's going to impact a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah, for sure. And so will you be running it in cohorts? Will you be running it from, you know, date A to date B?

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Yeah. So we start next week. I think it's April 26th is the start date. We're actually adding a new group, which we need to start publishing because we've had quite a few people in the UK asking about it. And our timing was like 1 a.m. UK for the offering we had. So we're going to be having two groups right now. It's an eight-week program, starts next week. And one group is going to be running through um, it's like an evening North America time. And then the other one is going to be a weekend uh UK time.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

And we'll put all the info in this podcast episode link if anyone is curious and wants to get one of the spots. There are only eight spots because we are so limited in in the time because there's gonna be so much one on one work involved in it. So um only eight spots. So if someone wants to snag one of those spots, we will put the link in the episode description.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Fabulous. Great. That sounds perfect. And so then, as one last question, um, what would be the I can totally hear you with your wanting to be somebody who's out loud right now, and hopefully, you know, you're a beacon of hope and support for other people. What actual advice would you give to other people right now who don't know where to turn to at this particular moment?

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Such a good question. I would say don't drink.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

I know you want to, but don't do it. Um, yoga if you can, or meditation if you can. Find some kind of like the thing is, I was crying out for help for listeners in people that were not equipped to listen. And it's no fault of them. You know, they haven't been through a coaching course, they haven't been through a counseling course, they don't know how to be supportive listeners. And I think sometimes we're reaching out for help repeatedly in the wrong places, and we keep expecting people to respond a different way. But it's like if you know this person has responded once to your mental health, then they're not the right person to talk to, even if it's your parent, even if it's like your uncle, whatever, you can still love them, but know that they're not going to be the right person to talk to about it. And rather than let yourself get let down by it over and over again, try to find somewhere else another safe space on the internet. Like there was a free bipolar group that I was going to for a little bit. I bet if you did some digging, you could find something like that, even like a Facebook group, like somewhere where you can find support because I do think the world is moving forward, but I also know there's a lot of people that are still feeling pretty alone. So try to find your people and know that it's okay to have a relationship with someone and they're just not going to be your listener, and that's okay. And find someone that's going to be able to support that in a capacity that you need.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Wonderful. That sounds like fabulous advice. Perfect. Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed chatting to you today, and I really hope that this podcast episode goes far and wide around the world. I hope that people pass it on. Wouldn't that be lovely if this episode got shared around to people who perhaps haven't listened to your podcast before, but people think to themselves, hmm, I think one of my friends might benefit from listening to this and shared it. That'd be a lovely thing. Um, and I'm quite sure that those two courses you've got um starting um next week are gonna be fully booked. I'm sure those places in each of those are gonna get snapped up really quickly. Thank you so much for today. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Oh, thank you so much, Sarah. You're amazing. You're an incredible interviewer. Um, by the way. So if anyone listening, I'll also put a link to Sarah's podcast. Sarah has a podcast as well. If anyone listening wants to check out her work, um, she also does sober coaching and she does events for the Mind of Life practice as well. So uh definitely check them out.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

All right. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Hi, friend. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Sober Yoga Girl Podcast. This community would not exist without you. So thank you for being here. It would be massively helpful if you subscribe to this show and leave a review so that we can reach more people. And if we haven't met yet in real life, please come hop on Zoom at the Mindful Life Practice because the opposite of addiction is connection, sending you love and light wherever you are in the world.