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Sober Yoga Girl
Alexandra McRobert, known as Sober Yoga Girl, is a former party girl turned international yoga teacher and sober lifestyle coach. Originally from Canada, Alexandra spent her twenties partying in Dubai, the land of bottomless brunch and unlimited drinks. Alex andranow supports other women in finding spirituality and sobriety through Sober Girls Yoga - which is part of The Mindful Life Practice, an international online yoga community she founded. In this podcast Alexandra will offer weekly episodes with insight into her life and journey, including stories, strategies, and sometimes with special guests. Dive into topics such as triggers around alcohol, yoga philosophy, speaking to family and friends and mental health. You’re not alone - and in being her open, authentic self, Alex helps others find and feel that.
You can find Alexandra's upcoming schedule here: https://www.soberyogagirl.com/p/upcoming-retreats-and-trainings-47b
Sober Yoga Girl
Sober Dating, Intimacy & Relationships with Ellen Woods
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What happens to sex, dating and relationships when alcohol is no longer part of the equation?
In this episode, I’m joined by Ellen Woods, founder of Sobriety Sisterhood, for an honest conversation about navigating intimacy in sobriety. We explore sober dating, learning to tolerate vulnerability without using alcohol for confidence, recognizing green flags, setting boundaries and discovering what we genuinely want from our relationships.
We also talk openly about sober intimacy - being fully present in our bodies, communicating our desires and working through the fears and insecurities that can surface when there’s nothing to numb them. Whether you’re newly sober, returning to dating or reimagining what healthy love looks like, this conversation is a reminder that sobriety doesn’t diminish intimacy—it can make space for something more authentic, conscious and deeply connected.
Check Out Ellen's Sobriety Sisterhood Retreat Here next month in Bali, and come join us! https://www.sobrietysisterhood.com/bali-2026
Join the free 60 Day Sober Girls Yoga Challenge here!
And join our next Sober Women's Bali Bhakti class here.
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Sober Yoga Girl Podcast. I'm so excited to be sitting here today with Ellen Woods, who is the founder of Sobriety Sisterhood. She's a sober coach and she's run a few retreats in Bali. And we've gotten the opportunity to work together on a few retreats already so far so far. And I'm super excited to be teaching yoga on her retreat next month.
SPEAKER_01Ellen, how are you? I am good. Thank you. I'm so pleased to be here and to see your beautiful face. Um, it's been a while, but yeah, we'll be back in Bali next month and uh excited to have you. You're like my selling point. Come and have uh our daily yoga with Alex, and it's it's so cool to be able to be like, and Alex is sober and um you know totally gets our journey and to embrace you as part of our circle as well.
SPEAKER_00It's so special to get to to play that role too. And I think your retreat was the first sober retreat I ever taught on in 2020. Really? Yeah, in 2021. Well, no, I was 22, yeah, it was 22, October 2022.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was. It worked out so brilliantly then because it was during COVID that I uh like found you online and was doing your classes um online and you were in what UAE then, and um and I kept on booking my Bali retreat, and it got kept on getting pushed back because of uh COVID. And by the time it came, you were there, and I was like, I'm gonna get Alexandra in to do all our retreat. It's like, yes, fantastic. Uh, and it's been something super special ever since then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, amazing. And so you how long have you been sober for?
SPEAKER_01Oh, uh coming up to eight years, uh really like eight years in December. It's uh it's like a long time, and it's like not, you know, it felt like the first 10 days were the longest ever, and then just the years start going by. It's about the same as you though, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, seven years. I mean, yeah, what's my sober date? April 2019. So what's yours?
SPEAKER_01Uh 2018, but like the very end of 2018. It was uh December 30th. Because I couldn't wait, I couldn't wait until New Year's Day. I was just like, I feel so shit. I just need to take a break from drinking right now. Um, and then it just carried on, carried on, and yeah, best thing I've ever done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, incredible. So I think I've had you on the podcast at least once before, right? Maybe once. Maybe twice. Yeah. And so I'm gonna put into the episode description, I'm gonna put the links into the episodes that I've had with Ellen. So if anyone listening wants to hear a bit more about her sober story, because I know that we we probably went more in depth into those episodes. Today we're gonna chat a little bit about long-term sobriety and then dating in sobriety. And I think it's gonna be a really interesting conversation based on like chatting before. Um, so I'm just wondering, like, in your experience, like, what is what changes most about dating when we stop using alcohol to create confidence and chemistry and relationships?
SPEAKER_01Um, well, I mean, that right, the fact that we have this Dutch courage when we were drinking. I mean, for me, it's really different. I I was married for 20, 20 years, uh, and was with that guy for like 26 years since I was 17. So, where my experience of dating was when I was a teenager. I mean, now I look back and think it was like when I was a child, really. And alcohol was heavily involved. Um, so all of my experiences, all of my like intimate experiences, all of my dating experiences had always been around alcohol, like alcohol-fueled. I didn't know any different. Um, so I had been through a lot, right? Like I got sober when I was still married. I went through a kind of a lot of complex trauma in that marriage because my ex suffers from um severe mental health uh issues, and then I divorced, and then I kind of stepped back into the dating world, but I was sober at that point. So when you're sober, you're a hundred percent present. It's like it's really good, and it's also can be really difficult sometimes because you're completely aware all the time of what's going on in your head, and there's no escape from it. So stepping into the sober world, uh, sober dating world is like, yeah, you come with all these anxieties. I came as a well 40, mid-40s woman with all this baggage, stepping into something and trying to meet somebody new and having no escape from my fears, my anxieties, my beliefs, my lack of confidence about my body, all these kind of things. Um, but in some weird way, that's incredibly empowering because I'm showing up as my authentic self as much as I can, um, and asking somebody to meet me where I am, and also I'm like, not only that, I am at somebody and seeing the true them and like actually are they good enough for me? Are they uh are they what I need? Are they what I want going forward? And I'm not just drunk and being like, yeah, they'll do, they'll do. Um my standards are quite high in what I want and what I need. Uh, and I think that's because of sobriety for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wow, I'm just thinking back, it's it's wild because we've both been sober for so long. And I'm thinking back to like before I got sober, and I just remember like some of the people that I dated before I got so I got sober, like some of them were nice people, but I look back on some of the things that I tolerated, and I'm like, I just can't believe that I was dating someone like that. Like, I just can't believe I was dating someone who like um would like, you know, would I remember in Kuwait I was dating someone who really wanted to like party at night and and we would keep we would stay out so late at night, but there was like no way for me to get a taxi to go home. And so I would be out so late and have to work the next morning, and like I wasn't happy, I wasn't rested, I wasn't tired, and and yet I continued on in this yeah cycle. And like you're absolutely right that as soon as you got sober, it's like my standards immediately just like I would never date someone like that now, ever. No amazing, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I I think of this sober journey, I always say it's like a therapeutic experiment, like some things work, some things don't, and there's no there's no right or wrong, no perfect. But the dating's a bit like that too. Um, and I don't I for sure have dated people whilst I'm sober that I'm like, oh why did I try that? Yeah, but I don't stay in it, right? Not I have a feeling if I was drinking, and like don't get me wrong, it wasn't didn't mean to be drunk all the time to be in that impacted by what alcohol, um, but sober. I'm like, actually, this I'm connected with myself enough at this point to know this doesn't align with me. Like having casual sex with people, or having like, oh well, I want this relationship, but they don't want to be totally in it, or like I can very quickly go check in with myself and say, Am I stepping into my people pleasing? Am I stepping into my wanting to be loved despite it not quite being right? Um, or is this what I want? And if it's not being able to say, hey, like say work for me and moving on.
SPEAKER_00Totally, yeah. So I'm wondering, like, I feel like I have this experience, like where there'll just be like a rush of like uncertainty or you know, emotional unavailability or like a type of chaos, and I feel like I like confuse that sometimes with like being attracted, and so I want to know like what your perspective is on like how can you tell that difference?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, that's difficult, especially in the early days of dating. Because a lot of it is like distraction, right? Like loneliness is difficult to sit with. Uh, I love my solitude, but I think ultimately we are kind of pack animals, and having somebody is really appealing, like to have your person, and those early days of like chatting to people and getting to know people, you want to be loved, right? Like, you want to be um you want the attention, and it can become addictive, and for sure, but like my reward pathway is skewed in my brain. Like, I will one drink is great, ten drinks are even better, one conversation is great, but ten conversations are better. Like, I I chase that, I know that I chase that, and it feels addictive, the attention feels addictive, and I think looking back on my sober journey, actually, that was my very early cross addiction was I went from alcohol and I abstained from alcohol, I was sober for sure, but I went to like validation. Um, sex and validation were my my cross addiction uh when I when I stopped drinking, I had to really step back and kind of recognise that um and be like, yeah, I'm still chasing that dopamine kind of that reward loop, the habit loop. So it takes time. Um I don't always necessarily get it right because yeah, it feels good to feel good. However, is it sobriety? Is it the work that I do? Is it therapy? Is it experience? Is it being a bit older? I can kind of go, I can stop and go, like, is this healthy? Am I bending myself at all to um to chase this person? Is this person right? And it's really checking in with myself all the time. Is this an adult thing? Sorry, I don't know if you can hear my dogs. Um is this is this good? Is this healthy? Is this what I want? Or am I just addicted to the conversation? Am I addicted to the chase? Am I addicted to chasing someone who doesn't really want to work for me? Like, as you said, that avoidant thing can be incredibly attractive. We were like trying to prove ourselves, and sometimes I I do, I get carried away with it, and then I have to ground myself in actually proper proper, healthy attachment doesn't look like this. Um, healthy attachment looks like two healthy people, uh, emotionally kind of regulated people being able to chat when it's good, when it's convenient. And you know, that Huberman he talks about the addiction is the narrowing of everything in pursuit of one thing, and I think that goes for love and a person sometimes. Like I can feel it's an addiction if I'm letting go of everything else around me. Like, if I'm gonna stop doing the things I love in pursuit of this one person's attention, then that's not really healthy for me. I still need to keep my life going around me. So if this doesn't work out, I'm not vulnerable at all.
SPEAKER_00Does that make sense? It totally makes sense, yeah. And it's so, it's so important because when I look back on some of my relationships, like even my I look back on like my first relationship ever with a boy when I was like 15 and he was older, he was in grade 12, and I completely like abandoned all my friends my age for this relationship with this person and all of his friends and blah blah blah. And then when they all like they all left and they went to away to university, and that was my first experience of like, whoa, I've like, I don't have anything now, and he still had everything, you know, and I don't think he understands that. Like, I I mean it's so long ago now, it was like 15 years ago, but it's like I don't think he understood how that, and I don't think I understood how that had an impact on my life, like until we're really talking about it now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's absolutely, you know, I love the work of sobriety, and this has been part of my work of sobriety is learning what a healthy relationship. I thought my relationship was really healthy with my uh with my ex. And then it's like, hang on a minute, yeah. I'm in a part of myself to that, and now going forward, I don't want to lose. I like I fought to become the person I am now, right? A we fight fight hard in sobriety to become the people we are, and I don't want to lose her because I quite like her now. Um, so yeah, I'm not I'm gonna try not to chase that kind of the dopamine of oh, this feels so good, this feels so good. It can feel good, and I can still be aligned to myself and have my life around as well.
SPEAKER_00So I have a question for you that's just kind of come into my head because I feel like I've seen this pattern so much about uh amongst sober women, and you're you're kind of speaking to it with you know, a woman becomes sober and then starts to see like they thought they were in a healthy relationship, and then all of a sudden they're seeing it with like new eyes. And I'm just wondering like, why do you think that this um this is so common for for people that come into sobriety that are already in a a partnership?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're right. I see, I mean, I work predominantly with women and I see that so much, and um, it was something with me. Like, honestly, people thought we had the perfect relationship. Um and like, yeah, it comes up and it comes up. I think when we stop drinking, it's kind of there's a few different paths. When we stop drinking, it's literally like we have those beer goggles taken off, right? We we're looking at life through one kind of lens, and it's the lens by well, it doesn't really matter because I get through to five o'clock and we have a couple of drinks, and then everything's fine, and maybe that's the way we can that's in uh the day doesn't need to be really great, but we have this time in the evening together, and we're a bit more open, and um uh I can not think about things for a start. I can just numb it with the fact that I'm I can have a couple of drinks. I'm also not totally aware of what things look like. Uh, when we stop drinking, we put take those glasses off and we're like so awareness is the first step to change. Um a lot of the time, alcohol is key in how people connect. Yeah. Um and that's just become a habit. It isn't anything that they intentionally set out, but it's how they connect, it's how their hobby, where their hobbies are built, um, their life is built around it. So when one person stops and the other tries to continue, it's really difficult because the person who's continuing feels some kind of resentment to the person that stopped because they haven't changed, right? They're continuing and they're like, Well, I'm not the one with the problem, you are. And the person that stopped drinking, we know that sobriety is freaking, right? We know that we start to love ourselves more, we start to advocate for ourselves more. And for a lot of women, that's possibly the first time they've advocated for themselves in a different way within that relationship, and it can cause friction. Um, doesn't mean that people need to separate, it doesn't mean that people need to split up, but for sure, it's like all of a sudden we can see that there's some differences and that maybe we need some help to find that way. We're discovering ourselves, I think, in sobriety. Um, we're discovering our boundaries, we're discovering it, advocating for ourselves, we're discovering what we love, we have we start to step out and we try new things, try new experiences. Maybe our friend group isn't the friend group that we stick with, we find new people, and that's really for a partner who just is carrying on and doesn't understand the journey.
SPEAKER_00That's true. And you know, that makes me think of like, so there's on the one hand, this the pattern of you know, people realizing that. And then I also, as you were speaking, I was thinking about how many I've seen so many really beautiful relationship examples of this where like the the woman, I mean, I'm maybe it happens if it's the man who gets sober, but I spend more time with women in the sober space. And what I find is like there will be this growing apart and then this really beautiful like coming back together where all of a sudden your partner is like on like a reiki retreat with them, and you're just like absolutely, and I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_01It's it's kind of like it's a time where we're finding our sober identity, our new identity, and there has to be some time and some compassion and some patience for our partner to as well discover our new sober identity and to meet that person, and and to for some people it doesn't change for some people. Alcohol is obviously an issue that there is more important to them, and that is when decisions kind of like okay, how do I show up in this? Does my relationship shift? So I find my happiness, like you know, I I'm fulfilled enough in my friendships and in my partnership in other ways, or do we split, or yeah, does it come back round and actually it's so much better? Um it's just the dynamics shift slightly, but yeah, in my experience, I've seen women who you know really were unsure in their relationships and um showing up with uh very little self-esteem and little uh little amount of self-confidence because they're in that kind of shame loop of drinking, and then when they stop drinking, it's like ah, start to build a bit of confidence, and generally it it makes for a better relationship.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so true. So, what are some green flags in it can be both in a relationship or in like a new person that you're seeing? Like, what are some green flags that someone will respect your sobriety?
SPEAKER_01Um, ooh, I mean generally one thing very, very early on I can tell is I'm sure you're the same. When you're sober, you you look at how other people drink. Um, and you can you kind of subconsciously you're tracking what their relationship with alcohol looks like. So green flag for me is definitely not somebody who's not gonna sit there and drink a bottle of wine to themselves, regardless of the facts that they're drinking, like that just seems to kind of naturally know that oh, okay, if she's not drinking, I'm not having much. Or for me, it's interesting actually, I was talking about this with a client um of how I was like going about talking about my sobriety with people and who I'm looking for. And I I if I'm really honest, and this is no judgment, um, I'm not sure that I would look for somebody who's completely sober unless I knew their journey into sobriety because I'm like, I don't want to rescue anyone, right? How people come into their sobriety and if they love their sobriety and it's from a place of abundance rather than like them feeling like they are always deprived and they've had to give something up, then it would be great. But if it's somebody who's constantly battling against their sobriety, I feel for me that would be really shaky ground to go on. Um, that's linked with my ex as well. For sure, I don't want to, I don't want to rescue anyone ever again. Um, so it's taken me a long time with the guy that I'm in a relationship with now. It took me months and months and months to trust his drinking, to trust his relationship with alcohol, that it wasn't he was waiting to get really drunk at some point. Because that was that was my kind of relationship with alcohol. Um, so my green flags took a lot of time to build the trust to see like this is okay, he's not gonna change personality. That's a big thing for me with it, is they can be a green flag when they're sober, but if they turn into an arsehole when they're drinking, I cannot. That that's that's unsustainable for me. So yeah, with him the green flag has really been like he really doesn't care so much about alcohol, um he doesn't change personality when he's had a drink or two, he is still him and he's still safe and he's still kind uh even after a drink.
SPEAKER_00And that's huge, yeah. That's huge. Because as long as someone like I would be okay as well being in a relationship with someone who had um alcohol in their life, as long as it is in like a healthy capacity, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I he's like honestly, he's one of the first people I've known who drink like that because I surrounded myself by people who drank like me, who like it's like, yeah, one is great, ten is brilliant. Um, oh let's get you know, any excuse really, like it was high energy, but again, being in a household, and I've got three kids, so that was the other thing to consider with in dating at this age is like if I'm gonna bring somebody into this household um because of the experience I've had with their dad with the mental health, and like he was suffering psychosis, so it meant that he changed personality very quickly. It could be mid conversation, but actually, now I'm aware that that energy is the same as when. Someone drinking, and certainly for my kids, it's really similar. Well, they're showing up one way when they're sober, but they have a few drinks, and all of a sudden the energy shifts and they're showing up a different way. It's not that dissimilar to the psychosis. So for me, it was like I cannot have anybody in the household for the kids that it that goes through the same thing, and also I don't want to either. I don't ever want to be walking on eggshells for somebody with their drinking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's huge. So when you're in a new relationship with someone, like how can you tell, like, how should we tell someone that we're sober and what does their response say to us about, you know, whether they're right for us?
SPEAKER_01Um, well, I mean, you know me, I'm like loud and proud about my sobriety. It's very much, yes, very much part of my identity. Um, so I do tell them pretty early on, and I also lay the boundaries around what that looks like for somebody. Um, so I mean, if it's online dating, I always had it on there, right? I'm sober. Um, if it's meeting people in real, if when they say, Do you want to go for a drink? I'm like, yeah, but just to let you know, it will be an alcohol-free drink because I don't drink alcohol. Um, and then the conversation, you can get a feel for people, right? As soon as you say that. Um, lots of people are like, Oh, that's cool. Uh, other people are like, what the fuck? What do you do? That would be kind of more or less a red flag for me. Okay. Um also looking at people's hobbies, right? Like, you generally know if people are into travel, they're into walking, they're into whatever, they got this well-rounded life, then even if they drink, it is probably not the focus of everything they do. If most people, it's like I like eating out, I like going to bars, I like going to clubs, I'm like, they're not my people. Um, yeah, yeah, I'm just it's not even that I'm not safe in my sobriety in that uh environment, it's just that that doesn't interest me anymore. Um, those other things do interest me, so yeah, I do tend to lead with it quite early. Um, and then as I say, I set the boundaries around it and like around just so you know, I don't drink, and then I will I follow up with it. I'm so blunt, I'm like, I don't drink, I love my sobriety. One thing I'm gonna ask you to do is not keep on offering me alcohol, like and it, you know, it it keeps me safe, it keeps I I'm always safe in my decision to not to drink, but I don't want to be around someone who's trying to constantly uh encourage me to drink. So yeah, lead early, be proud of it, have fun with it. Um no shame in it at all because that's how I felt in the early days. I was embarrassed of my sobriety, like, oh, this is something that people are gonna think I'm weird. Now I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever done. Um, and I'm gonna make sure that I'm safe in it in all times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally agree with everything you said. Um, I just got on the hinge app. I was there's like a few different dating apps, and someone put me onto hinge, and I think it's the best one because you have to do like a really thorough um profile of yourself. And part of that is like, do you it's like, do you do drugs, do you drink, do you smoke? are like three of the top things. Okay. And then it asks you what's your sexual orientation, but you can also hide it. Um, you can also put your religion, you can put your political. And it's amazing because it's so easy to like to people out. Yeah. And so I pretty much will say no to anyone that, and this might be extreme, but anyone who has a drink in their hinge profile photos, I will say no to. And that's only because that obviously to you is important, an important part of your personality if you've chosen it to be in this profile, you know? Um, I will, I will most I will get really happy or excited when I see someone that identifies as sober and will like them, you know, and but it's enough for me as long as alcohol doesn't seem to be like a main feature in their profile. Um, I also really prefer when I see that someone identifies as a lesbian on the dating app. And it's not because I'm I'm like not open to dating people that aren't lesbian, but I just feel like if you have that identity identity, it's like okay, you're like proud and like solidified in that, you know, whereas like sometimes I don't, I just don't want to date like this older version of me who like I was like open to women on the dating apps for like 10 years, but was like like too scared and like wouldn't actually probably move forward. And I'm like, hey, I don't want to date someone like me, you know, like I want to date someone who like feels like they're more secure in their identity. And so yeah, I love it's like the same type of thing, you know. I love how specific the app can be that you can just be so clear on who you are, and yeah, and then you don't have to like go over those hurdles of having to come out as sober or like you know, negotiate about it with someone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I love that because we just feel aligned. I think the the long-term sobriety that is the biggest gift for me is I feel very aligned. I'm like, I'm pretty sure in who I am. Where I have any doubts, I kind of seek help and support, but I know what I do want and I know what I don't want. And and I can be really clear, I'm not unkind with it, but for me, it is like it's pragmatic more than anything. Like, this is not gonna work. It doesn't matter how much I like find you attractive, it doesn't matter how much I like you, if this part of your life there can be chemistry and no compatibility. I think that's it. For me, there has to be chemistry and compatibility to for a good relationship. So let's just check the compatibility bit first. Yeah, if you don't want someone with kids, if you don't want someone that lives the way that I live, like, and if you uh a lot, if you smoke, like they're just not compatible really with me. So the chemistry will die at some point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's so true. So, how what's the best way to navigate first dates, like when there's so much drinking and dating culture? What would you see say?
SPEAKER_01Um, I I mean, actually, I like doing things that are not like going to a bar. Like, okay, yeah, what do you like doing? So, for instance, with my boyfriend, our first date was we went for a walk. Like, let's go for a walk. I love that anyway, because it doesn't feel intense. I love walking and talking to people, you're not there's not the whole like eye contact, you're walking in rhythm, you're talking, you're getting to know somebody. But I think that's a really good way to um to start to get to know somebody is like, let's go do an activity. What are you into? Like, do you want to go climbing? Do you want to go do an art class? Do you want to like those kind of things? Should we go and have some fun? Because that's the other point. Life is supposed to be fun, right? Just because we don't drink doesn't mean things are not fun. Um, so it's like go have fun with somebody and see how they are. There's so many different options nowadays that aren't revolved around uh revolving around drink. Um so that would be my first yeah, my first kind of point. And the second one is like to take a breath and be this is okay. They're probably as nervous as we are, right? There, and I always say, I have a friend who's like, you're so brave dating. I know it's like trying on hats. I'm not for everybody, and not everybody's for me. You know, you're gonna try them on, they're not gonna suit, and that's okay, it's just an experience. There is no failure, there's no like, oh, if they don't like me, it's because I'm not good enough. For me, it's like I'm not gonna be for everybody, and they're not gonna be for me. But first dates are first dates, they have to get to know that. Um, so yeah, it's okay. Like, have some perspective, I think, on it is really important. It's so true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like trying on hats. I love that. So, what about like how what kind of boundaries have you learned to sort of um what have you learned, I guess, about boundaries? That's the question. In like sober dating, around like, you know, sex, exclusivity, communication, emotional pacing. Um, like what's what's the role of boundaries around all of that?
SPEAKER_01Um, obviously there's about the boundaries around alcohol, um, for sure. It's interesting because that was something that really broke down uh my relationship, my marriage, right, was the intimacy part with drinking. Um because I mean, mine was really extreme because he was self-medicating with alcohol. So there was alcohol use disorder, but it was tied up in mental health issues. But it meant that he was drinking a lot, and that really broke down our intimacy because I didn't want him near me when he had been drinking when I was sober. Like when I was drinking too, we would have sex, it would be fine. But when I stopped drinking, that really broke down for me. Like, I didn't want somebody who was effectively drunk, even after two or three drinks. I just didn't want that, it didn't feel genuine, it didn't feel authentic. And sober intimacy is a thing that I work on with my clients that it's um it feels very difficult in the beginning. Um, but that is definitely a boundary for me. I wouldn't be intimate like with somebody who is drunk. Um and when I think back now to the things that I did when I was drinking, like they don't align at all with what I wanted at the time, probably what I think is okay and what I you know I think's not okay. So doing this sober is much more is my touch with, yeah, and I can't deal with this. Um so it's great. Um, but there's that boundary around kind of drink and intimacy. I just wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't um I wouldn't entertain that. Um yeah, I don't know what else really. Intimacy is difficult, it's not difficult. As I said, I've been talking to a client recently about this, and she's like, I've never had sex when I haven't been drinking, and I'm like, okay, let's pause because it can feel like that, but is that actually true? Let's just explore that a little bit. And she's like, Oh well, and like we probably have we do tie loosening up and losing our inhibitions and making it easier in our confidence and um with alcohol a lot, that's for sure. However, there probably are times where we have been completely sober, like morning sex, or you know, all those kind of things. So um there are times, but it is difficult to be us and to show up with all our flaws and to be extremely vulnerable. I think that's it. We're showing up and asking somebody to really uh uh accept us how we are, and we're doing that completely sober. It's freaking badass, but it is difficult.
SPEAKER_00It's so scary. You know, I when I think on my sobriety, I'm like, I don't know if I have had intimacy with someone who's been drinking. Like, I can't remember. No time is like is like popping out for me on that one, but when I think about like so in my transition to being with women, I am like, there's like so many, like such intense fears around all of it. And I'm very lucky that I'm with someone that's right now that's like really supportive of where I'm at with it. But yeah, before I got sober, I talk about this on my coming out podcast. There were a couple nights when I was with women, like right before I got sober. And I'm like, I don't even know how that happened. I don't know who initiated that. I don't know how you ended up in my bed. I don't know, like anything of anything of that night. I could not recreate it if someone asked me to like to tell them the sequence of events. I have no idea. And so that was a big fear for me was that I had never been when I came out, I was like, I've never been intimate with a woman sober ever. Um, and so that's been really, it's been like really, really scary. And I think having someone that can just like understand where I'm at, and it feels it feels very much like I'm like 15 again, you know?
SPEAKER_01And um the beauty of it, right, is that it's intimacy in a different way, and I think because now I'm like, unless emotionally there's that real connection, then there's not the physical intimacy, there's not the connection physically, and so because there's because I'm so like, no, I know what's right for me now, and I know what's wrong for me, and I have to see this person show up for me in a certain way, and I have to show up for them, and there has to be this connection for us to be physical, and therefore the physical is freaking awesome because there's the emotional behind it, like there's not the detachment that there was when I was drinking, so yeah, it feels uncomfortable, but it's also it's so much better because it's a different kind of connection. Um, yeah, I can imagine. I mean, we were talking before the podcast, and I was like, yeah, no, I totally know that if I was drinking, I would I would like have more interactions with women. It is my sobriety that stops that, that kind of like, and I'm like, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing sometimes, but I do know that my intimacy now like is another level is and I know that actually the other thing that I really like because towards the end of my other relationship, I was like, I was basically intimate when I didn't want to be, right? Because there was this pressure and there was a complete disconnect emotionally because my husband was suffering psychosis, you know, it wasn't we I had we had love from him for him, um, but the relationship had shifted so much that I was a caretaker, but for him, love was about like if you really loved me, you would be having sex with me, and so I would go through that process not wanting to, and so I kind of came with a lot of trauma around that as well. Um, and now I'm very like, if the emotional is not right, I will not step into the physical, and my partner can tell, like, if he's like, No, I know that you're this is this is not right for you, or you're not relaxed enough, or that we if we've had cross words or anything, and he's completely kind of respectful and in tune with that. Um, so that's really important to me to be able to go, like, yeah, if emotionally we're not connecting, then physically I'm not gonna step into this space.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that's huge. Yeah. So I'm wondering, like, what would you say to someone who is and I had this feel, I had this fear when I first got sober of like this is going to limit my dating pool, like I'm never gonna find someone to date again. What would you say to someone who has that fear?
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, possibly it does, but that is that a bad thing? Like, is it a bad thing? Most of the dating pool is not meant for you. Yeah, um, I think what it does is it ups your spots and freaking brilliant. Uh we deserve to be with somebody who meets our standards and meets us where we are, and like yeah, I don't think that's a bad thing. There is there is there is there are people out there that will be for you that will um that have done, you know, they're at a kind of similar place in emotional maturity or the work that they've done on themselves, and yeah, sure, you could want to choose from everybody, um, but why would you want to choose from everybody? Like, why not limit it down? Like you say, it's like filtering, it's it's kind of going, yeah, look, I can see that these people are gonna be uh are gonna bring something to my life and meet me where I am, and they're gonna enrich my life. Um for me, it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I love that. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a bit about your community and your coaching and then also your retreats. Like, how can people Yeah?
SPEAKER_01Um, so I have my online community. Uh, we meet twice a week. It's women only. Um, it's tiny, right? Like, it's one thing I wholeheartedly believe in my community that they keep me sober as much as hopefully I support them in their sobriety. That's why I started it in the first place. Like, I love my sobriety, but I know my brain works the same as anybody else. So I lead with integrity, um, and that's like it keeps me safe in my sobriety because I wouldn't lead the community if I didn't uh if I wasn't sober. So yeah, we are a tiny community, we meet twice a week, we have a WhatsApp group, um, and we talk like this, right? Like, it's not a teaching session, it's not a um, I'm not preaching, it's different to 12-step. Um, I believe that it's part, you know, 12-step's not for everybody, but also some of my people are in 12 people as as this, it's it's different. I think it complements it rather than fights against it. Um, and it's just a group of women who we talk about life um and how life impacts our sobriety, and sobriety impacts our life. It's a much more holistic kind of version. Um, I do lots of one-to-one training uh coaching as well, which I love. Um, I work around kind of the pillars, the lifestyle pillars that that's really my background, exercise physiology and like personal training and nutrition, stress resilience. And in fact, that's what the retreat will be a lot about is stress resilience, like taking the time to heal our nervous system, the space to be in that kind of rest and digest space to give us capacity to go forward into life rather than feeling like, oh, I need to work, work, work, work, work all the time, and my worth is around what I produced. So, yeah, that's a lot of my work with women is like, have you been resting? Like, um, how do we deal with overwhelm? Um, and how are we proactive in making sure that that isn't something that triggers a reoccurrence in our our uh relationship with alcohol?
SPEAKER_00Love that. And okay, so you have the Bali retreat upcoming. Um, what else, like what is so the nervous system resetting is gonna be a big part of it. What are the dates? Like, what can people expect when they come?
SPEAKER_01So we are in Bali, we've still got a couple of spaces left from the 10th. Oh, it's like a month, yeah, a month day. From the 10th until the 17th of October, uh, we have you every day um doing the yoga. It will very much be a slower retreat. Um, we did Mozambique, and that was brilliant. It was all about adventure and like discovering Bali for me is the opposite, right? It's more about undoing, like unbecoming. I don't know. It's so this is gonna be slower mornings, slower routine, um the yoga with you, beautiful breakfast at the place, uh, a sharing circle where we get to connect, we get to share kind of our stories a little bit, and yeah, this as I said, this time it will be more around um kind of stress resilience and how we can step into that space. And then the afternoons are gonna be either nice, slow afternoons, massage, reiki, um at the resort, or they're gonna be out and exploring uh Ubud a little bit, monkey forest, uh going doing some cookery classes, eating some good Balinese food, um, the pyramids of chi, of course, which every year I'm like, I'm not going back to the pyramids of chi. And then I'm like, okay, I'm back at the pyramids of chi, um, having their their beautiful food and and the sound healing, which I don't know, there's something in me that I'm like, I don't want to like this, and then every time I go, I'm like, I love this so much. So yeah, have to take people back.
SPEAKER_00The first time I ever went to Pyramids of Qi was with you, actually, when your retreat was there. Yeah, I had never been there, and then and then uh you guys invited me along. I actually don't think I even did the treatment, I think or the sound healing or whatever. No, no, I think you you just had like literally came for lunch, and I was like, Whoa, this place is cool. Like, yeah, it's really cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think if nothing else, going for some lunch there and just sitting. That's we're gonna go and try and spend a few hours. It's like we've got to take these ladies for lunch.
SPEAKER_00Oh, totally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and shopping.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Amazing, yeah. Well, I'm just so excited that you're coming back. I was so thrilled when I found out because it's also really it's really fills my cup to get to spend time with sober women. I feel very grateful to to have the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love having you as part of the group. And uh, I don't know, it's always a really good time, right? For I feel like for us because it's like a marker, it's some kind of milestone to stop and go like the time passes, and I know that you're always there and I can connect with you on a message if I I want to. But it's like okay, we get to kind of go, what's been going on the last year? What's been going on the last two years? Like, where are we at? How far have we come? Um, and that's so important, it's such a gift. So true.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, thank you so much, Ellen. As we wrap up, are there any like last things you want to share or um any things before we close?
SPEAKER_01No, I think just anybody who is curious about sobriety. Uh I think that's the thing for me, even in long term sobriety, is to keep curious. I think that's the key to it. And the same with sober dating, sober intimacy. Like just lead with curiosity and see what works, what doesn't.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much, Alan. Thank you.